AAT calculation unreliability

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AAT calculation unreliability

Tibor Arpas-2

Hi,
After a long break I'm flying a competition with XCsoar on an android phone. The convenience of fine touchscreen,  great display, speed and other advantages of android are irreplacable.

However I experienced some oddities when flying AAT tasks. One day I flew in too early, although I flew around 2 minutes past the calculated optimization arc (and 2 minutes back which makes 4 minutes margin). I flew in 3 minutes early. That's 7 minutes earlier than expected. I don't remember the exact McCready setting and actual speed flown but that couldn't be the culprit for such a large error on a leg of 15-20 kilometers. Any ideas what could it be?

The next day I we had four assigned areas. I was very slow in the first ones so, clearly, I only needed to touch the 3rd and 4th area. On the way to the 3rd area I got above final glide. But at the moment of touching the 3rd area the task arrival altitude increased around 400 meters. The optimization arcs didn't change (they were at the edges before and after) I cannot think about any settings which would make this a user error rather than a bug. Can you?

And yes, I'll submit bug reports with tasks and nmea logs if nobody gives tips for user errors I could've made.
>
> Thanks,
> Tibor


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Re: AAT calculation unreliability

Castelli Horacio R.
Hi Tibor
I´ve also reported some issues with AAT calculations, and the team found those as "Defect"....
See
http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/3488

think that we both found same errors....

Regards

Horacio Castelli


------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 10:24:31 +0200
From: Tibor Arpas <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Xcsoar-user] AAT calculation unreliability
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,
After a long break I'm flying a competition with XCsoar on an android phone. The convenience of fine touchscreen,  great display, speed and other advantages of android are irreplacable.

However I experienced some oddities when flying AAT tasks. One day I flew in too early, although I flew around 2 minutes past the calculated optimization arc (and 2 minutes back which makes 4 minutes margin). I flew in 3 minutes early. That's 7 minutes earlier than expected. I don't remember the exact McCready setting and actual speed flown but that couldn't be the culprit for such a large error on a leg of 15-20 kilometers. Any ideas what could it be?

The next day I we had four assigned areas. I was very slow in the first ones so, clearly, I only needed to touch the 3rd and 4th area. On the way to the 3rd area I got above final glide. But at the moment of touching the 3rd area the task arrival altitude increased around 400 meters. The optimization arcs didn't change (they were at the edges before and after) I cannot think about any settings which would make this a user error rather than a bug. Can you?

And yes, I'll submit bug reports with tasks and nmea logs if nobody gives tips for user errors I could've made.
>
> Thanks,
> Tibor

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Re: AAT calculation unreliability

Tibor Arpas-2
In reply to this post by Tibor Arpas-2
Hi,
thanks everybody for tips. The competition is going on so I didn't
have time for investigation. I'll get back to it later. Also now I
remember there was another failure on previous days. After finishing
an AAT XCsoar determined achieved speed of cca 80 km/h . The real
speed was (luckily) 95 km/h.


>
>> meters. The optimization arcs didn't change (they were at the edges before
>> and after) I cannot think about any settings which would make this a user
>> error rather than a bug. Can you?
>
> I guess its an issue with headwind above/below final ...
> I do not use this and always switch this OFF.
>

Which setting is this Claus? The only think I can think of is Glide
Computer -> Glide Computre -> Predict wind drift, which I have at
"On".

Tibor


> And yes, I'll submit bug reports with tasks and nmea logs if nobody gives
> tips for user errors I could've made.
>
> Claus
>
> ps
> flying in a nearness of 15 - 20 km (mostly beginning with app. 40 km on weak
> days)  I'm definitely not looking at XCS any more, but in front to the
> target line, wouldn' t you?
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tibor
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud.
> GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that
> you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business.
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> https://www.gigenetcloud.com/
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>
>
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>
>

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Re: AAT calculation unreliability

Tibor Arpas-2
I submitted a ticket #3600 . The AAT dT during my flight indicated
that I'll fly in too early. However, I did have AAT turnpoint
'Optimise' checked on, so XCSoar should've moved the optimisation arc
further out.

As for the other bug I'll investigate later.

Thanks,
Tibor

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Tibor Arpas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
> thanks everybody for tips. The competition is going on so I didn't
> have time for investigation. I'll get back to it later. Also now I
> remember there was another failure on previous days. After finishing
> an AAT XCsoar determined achieved speed of cca 80 km/h . The real
> speed was (luckily) 95 km/h.
>
>
>>
>>> meters. The optimization arcs didn't change (they were at the edges before
>>> and after) I cannot think about any settings which would make this a user
>>> error rather than a bug. Can you?
>>
>> I guess its an issue with headwind above/below final ...
>> I do not use this and always switch this OFF.
>>
>
> Which setting is this Claus? The only think I can think of is Glide
> Computer -> Glide Computre -> Predict wind drift, which I have at
> "On".
>
> Tibor
>
>
>> And yes, I'll submit bug reports with tasks and nmea logs if nobody gives
>> tips for user errors I could've made.
>>
>> Claus
>>
>> ps
>> flying in a nearness of 15 - 20 km (mostly beginning with app. 40 km on weak
>> days)  I'm definitely not looking at XCS any more, but in front to the
>> target line, wouldn' t you?
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tibor
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud.
>> GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that
>> you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business.
>> Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today.
>> https://www.gigenetcloud.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xcsoar-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>>
>>

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Re: AAT calculation unreliability

Tibor Arpas-2
In reply to this post by Tibor Arpas-2
I submitted the ticket #3600 . The AAT dT during my flight indicated
that I'll fly in too early. However, I did have AAT turnpoint
'Optimise' checked on and optmisation margin of 1 minute, so XCSoar
should've moved the optimisation arc further out.

On setting the optimisation margin to 10 minutes I'm getting AAT dt of
5-7 minutes.

As for the arrival altitude bug I'll investigate more later.

Thanks,
Tibor

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 9:25 AM, Tibor Arpas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
> thanks everybody for tips. The competition is going on so I didn't
> have time for investigation. I'll get back to it later. Also now I
> remember there was another failure on previous days. After finishing
> an AAT XCsoar determined achieved speed of cca 80 km/h . The real
> speed was (luckily) 95 km/h.
>
>
>>
>>> meters. The optimization arcs didn't change (they were at the edges before
>>> and after) I cannot think about any settings which would make this a user
>>> error rather than a bug. Can you?
>>
>> I guess its an issue with headwind above/below final ...
>> I do not use this and always switch this OFF.
>>
>
> Which setting is this Claus? The only think I can think of is Glide
> Computer -> Glide Computre -> Predict wind drift, which I have at
> "On".
>
> Tibor
>
>
>> And yes, I'll submit bug reports with tasks and nmea logs if nobody gives
>> tips for user errors I could've made.
>>
>> Claus
>>
>> ps
>> flying in a nearness of 15 - 20 km (mostly beginning with app. 40 km on weak
>> days)  I'm definitely not looking at XCS any more, but in front to the
>> target line, wouldn' t you?
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Tibor
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Don't Limit Your Business. Reach for the Cloud.
>> GigeNET's Cloud Solutions provide you with the tools and support that
>> you need to offload your IT needs and focus on growing your business.
>> Configured For All Businesses. Start Your Cloud Today.
>> https://www.gigenetcloud.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xcsoar-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>>
>>

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