How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

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How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Ramy Yanetz
The ability to create a new waypoint on the fly and add it to a task without having to use a computer or waypoint editor is in my opinion an important feature, even though I rarely fly tasks myself, but when I do, I always find the lack of such a feature very limiting, especially when using waypoint files which are mostly consist of airports in the valleys and not waypoints on top of the mountains where the lift is.
However according to Max and apf this feature always existed. See http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194
Well, after more than 30 minutes of trying and browsing the manual, I still cant find how to create a waypoint on the fly on the map.
Can anyone explain how?

Thanks,

Ramy

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Max Kellermann
On 2015/07/24 05:08, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Can anyone explain how?

Using XCSoar's waypoint editor which has always existed (at least
since version 5.0).

For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can add
to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature.

For 6.8_alpha9 users (to be released soon): "Markers" are now regular
waypoints (and the waypoint details dialog has an "Edit" button).

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Ramy Yanetz
Max, I don't think the waypoint editor has an option to use the map, at least not in 6.7 and as such does not address this request at all.  Entering a waypoint coordinates is not something you can do on the fly at the airport while getting ready to fly after evaluating the latest forecast and realize that there will be thunderstorms over your original intended waypoint but unfortunately there are no other pre defined waypoints to choose from in the desired area.
Perhaps the markers will do if you can create a marker at any point on the map, not just current position. Will 6.8 provide the option to create a marker at any point on the map? If not, I think it is highly desirable.

Thanks,

Ramy


> On Jul 23, 2015, at 10:27 PM, Max Kellermann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2015/07/24 05:08, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Can anyone explain how?
>
> Using XCSoar's waypoint editor which has always existed (at least
> since version 5.0).
>
> For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can add
> to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature.
>
> For 6.8_alpha9 users (to be released soon): "Markers" are now regular
> waypoints (and the waypoint details dialog has an "Edit" button).

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Martin Kopplow
In reply to this post by Max Kellermann
As far as I can see, markers can only be dropped at the current GPS position. That kind of limits this tool for creating waypoints intended as yet-to-reach turnpoints or targets.

If markers could be dropped while in pan mode, this would be a whole different story, though. A user could then pan to the desired location, put the cross hairs right over the chosen place, and drop a marker, then name it and use in his task.

The pan mode menu would only need a 'drop marker' box, then.

Viele Grüße
Martin Kopplow

Mobil +49 171 7984740

---

Am 24.07.2015 um 07:27 schrieb Max Kellermann <[hidden email]>:

> On 2015/07/24 05:08, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Can anyone explain how?
>
> Using XCSoar's waypoint editor which has always existed (at least
> since version 5.0).
>
> For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can add
> to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature.
>
> For 6.8_alpha9 users (to be released soon): "Markers" are now regular
> waypoints (and the waypoint details dialog has an "Edit" button).
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Xcsoar-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Ramy Yanetz
Yes, this is what the original tickets were asking for 5 years.
They were closed as if this feature exists but apparently it isn't.
As far as I know the ability to create a waypoint on the map on the fly exists in all other flight computers. Winpilot already had it more than 10 years ago.

Ramy

> On Jul 24, 2015, at 8:49 AM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> As far as I can see, markers can only be dropped at the current GPS position. That kind of limits this tool for creating waypoints intended as yet-to-reach turnpoints or targets.
>
> If markers could be dropped while in pan mode, this would be a whole different story, though. A user could then pan to the desired location, put the cross hairs right over the chosen place, and drop a marker, then name it and use in his task.
>
> The pan mode menu would only need a 'drop marker' box, then.
>
> Viele Grüße
> Martin Kopplow
>
> Mobil +49 171 7984740
>
> ---
>
>> Am 24.07.2015 um 07:27 schrieb Max Kellermann <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> On 2015/07/24 05:08, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Can anyone explain how?
>>
>> Using XCSoar's waypoint editor which has always existed (at least
>> since version 5.0).
>>
>> For experts: there's an event called "AddWaypoint" which you can add
>> to your .xci file, to have a shortcut for that feature.
>>
>> For 6.8_alpha9 users (to be released soon): "Markers" are now regular
>> waypoints (and the waypoint details dialog has an "Edit" button).
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xcsoar-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Xcsoar-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Martin Kopplow
In reply to this post by Martin Kopplow
Yes, if that created a waypoint at the map center, we'd be fine, I guess.

Viele Grüße
Martin Kopplow

Mobil +49 171 7984740

---

Am 24.07.2015 um 18:12 schrieb Bryan Hindle <[hidden email]>:

> You mean like this.

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Andreas Pfaller
A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
available in 6.7.x.

The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
waypoint.

So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
6.8.x alpha was just released.



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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Ramy Yanetz
There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be available in 6.8.
I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air location.
Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the manual.

Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar

Ramy

(Sent from my iPhone)

> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
> available in 6.7.x.
>
> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
> waypoint.
>
> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Xcsoar-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Ramy Yanetz
Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map.
So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. Reopening the ticket.

Ramy


From: Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>
To: Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]>
Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be available in 6.8.
I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air location.
Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the manual.

Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar

Ramy

(Sent from my iPhone)



> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
> available in 6.7.x.
>
> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
> waypoint.
>
> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Xcsoar-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user


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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Martin Kopplow
I also just took the time and tried it.

in 6.8.9 it is possible.

Steps:
1. Enable pan mode.
2. Pan to desired location.
3. Double tap on map while still in pan mode (Took a while until I figured that one out!)
4. Now select NAV 2 and drop marker. You are now in pan mode AND in nav 2 menu.
5. Drop a marker. It is created at the crosshair location and named according to coordinates.
6. Tap on map to get ‚map elements at this location‘ page.
7. Select the marker from the list.
8. Tap ‚Details‘ button to get element info page.
9. Tap right arrow to get waypoint details.
10. Tap ‚Edit‘ button to get waypoint editor page.
11. Make your edits (Rename, etc. ) and quit with OK.

-> Now tap on the new waypoint in map and insert it in task or go to task editor and use it the usual way.

I’d not say that is the most straightforward and intuitive way, but it might be acceptable for pre flight.



In 6.7.x, though, the above is NOT possible, since the marker is not dropped at the crosshair location.

Martin


---



Am 25.07.2015 um 03:59 schrieb Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>:

> Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map.
> So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. Reopening the ticket.
>
> Ramy
>
> From: Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>
> To: Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?
>
> There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be available in 6.8.
> I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air location.
> Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the manual.
>
> Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar
>
> Ramy
>
> (Sent from my iPhone)
>
>
>
> > On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
> > just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
> > normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
> > will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
> > available in 6.7.x.
> >
> > The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
> > waypoint.
> >
> > So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
> > 6.8.x alpha was just released.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > _______________________________________________
> > Xcsoar-user mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Xcsoar-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user


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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Ramy Yanetz
Thanks Martin for confirming that it is not working in 6.7 but works in 6.8.

Ramy

> On Jul 26, 2015, at 5:47 AM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I also just took the time and tried it.
>
> in 6.8.9 it is possible.
>
> Steps:
> 1. Enable pan mode.
> 2. Pan to desired location.
> 3. Double tap on map while still in pan mode (Took a while until I figured that one out!)
> 4. Now select NAV 2 and drop marker. You are now in pan mode AND in nav 2 menu.
> 5. Drop a marker. It is created at the crosshair location and named according to coordinates.
> 6. Tap on map to get ‚map elements at this location‘ page.
> 7. Select the marker from the list.
> 8. Tap ‚Details‘ button to get element info page.
> 9. Tap right arrow to get waypoint details.
> 10. Tap ‚Edit‘ button to get waypoint editor page.
> 11. Make your edits (Rename, etc. ) and quit with OK.
>
> -> Now tap on the new waypoint in map and insert it in task or go to task editor and use it the usual way.
>
> I’d not say that is the most straightforward and intuitive way, but it might be acceptable for pre flight.
>
>
>
> In 6.7.x, though, the above is NOT possible, since the marker is not dropped at the crosshair location.
>
> Martin
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>> Am 25.07.2015 um 03:59 schrieb Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map.
>> So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. Reopening the ticket.
>>
>> Ramy
>>
>> From: Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>
>> To: Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?
>>
>> There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be available in 6.8.
>> I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air location.
>> Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the manual.
>>
>> Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar
>>
>> Ramy
>>
>> (Sent from my iPhone)
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
>>> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
>>> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
>>> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
>>> available in 6.7.x.
>>>
>>> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
>>> waypoint.
>>>
>>> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
>>> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xcsoar-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xcsoar-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Xcsoar-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Ramy Yanetz
In reply to this post by Martin Kopplow
And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
Max really thinks we are all stupid:

"Ramy please stop spamming your off-topic bullshit here. This ticket is
closed because it was bogus from the start, and there's nothing left to
discuss. Take your ego somewhere else, please."

(Sent from my iPhone)

> On Jul 26, 2015, at 5:47 AM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I also just took the time and tried it.
>
> in 6.8.9 it is possible.
>
> Steps:
> 1. Enable pan mode.
> 2. Pan to desired location.
> 3. Double tap on map while still in pan mode (Took a while until I figured that one out!)
> 4. Now select NAV 2 and drop marker. You are now in pan mode AND in nav 2 menu.
> 5. Drop a marker. It is created at the crosshair location and named according to coordinates.
> 6. Tap on map to get ‚map elements at this location‘ page.
> 7. Select the marker from the list.
> 8. Tap ‚Details‘ button to get element info page.
> 9. Tap right arrow to get waypoint details.
> 10. Tap ‚Edit‘ button to get waypoint editor page.
> 11. Make your edits (Rename, etc. ) and quit with OK.
>
> -> Now tap on the new waypoint in map and insert it in task or go to task editor and use it the usual way.
>
> I’d not say that is the most straightforward and intuitive way, but it might be acceptable for pre flight.
>
>
>
> In 6.7.x, though, the above is NOT possible, since the marker is not dropped at the crosshair location.
>
> Martin
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>> Am 25.07.2015 um 03:59 schrieb Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map.
>> So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. Reopening the ticket.
>>
>> Ramy
>>
>> From: Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>
>> To: Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?
>>
>> There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be available in 6.8.
>> I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air location.
>> Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the manual.
>>
>> Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar
>>
>> Ramy
>>
>> (Sent from my iPhone)
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
>>> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
>>> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
>>> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
>>> available in 6.7.x.
>>>
>>> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
>>> waypoint.
>>>
>>> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
>>> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Xcsoar-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xcsoar-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Max Kellermann
On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
> Max really thinks we are all stupid:

That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and other
XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
XCSoar bug tracker.

Byebye.

Max

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Martin Kopplow
In reply to this post by Ramy Yanetz
I don’t understand the confusion. There either is or isn’t a usable feature.

IF there was already a way to create waypoints from the map in 6.7.x or earlier, I’d appreciate someone point me in towards the workflow. I could not find it in the manual, and couldn’t figure out myself, too. IF there is a way, I’d like to learn and share it with my flying buddies, it could help us a lot.

Which was the number of the ticket mentioned, Ramy? I would like to read it, maybe I get enlightenment from it.
Max, are we actually all talking the same topic or do we have a complete misunderstanding?

Martin


---






Am 26.07.2015 um 19:06 schrieb Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>:

> And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
> Max really thinks we are all stupid:
>
> "Ramy please stop spamming your off-topic bullshit here. This ticket is
> closed because it was bogus from the start, and there's nothing left to
> discuss. Take your ego somewhere else, please."
>
> (Sent from my iPhone)
>
>> On Jul 26, 2015, at 5:47 AM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I also just took the time and tried it.
>>
>> in 6.8.9 it is possible.
>>
>> Steps:
>> 1. Enable pan mode.
>> 2. Pan to desired location.
>> 3. Double tap on map while still in pan mode (Took a while until I figured that one out!)
>> 4. Now select NAV 2 and drop marker. You are now in pan mode AND in nav 2 menu.
>> 5. Drop a marker. It is created at the crosshair location and named according to coordinates.
>> 6. Tap on map to get ‚map elements at this location‘ page.
>> 7. Select the marker from the list.
>> 8. Tap ‚Details‘ button to get element info page.
>> 9. Tap right arrow to get waypoint details.
>> 10. Tap ‚Edit‘ button to get waypoint editor page.
>> 11. Make your edits (Rename, etc. ) and quit with OK.
>>
>> -> Now tap on the new waypoint in map and insert it in task or go to task editor and use it the usual way.
>>
>> I’d not say that is the most straightforward and intuitive way, but it might be acceptable for pre flight.
>>
>>
>>
>> In 6.7.x, though, the above is NOT possible, since the marker is not dropped at the crosshair location.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>>> Am 25.07.2015 um 03:59 schrieb Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> Just tried it again. Panned out and dropped a marker. The marker was not dropped at the cross air. It was dropped at current location. So if the enhancement in 6.8 is to convert it to a waypoint, it will still not address the need to be able to create a waypoint on any place on the map.
>>> So no, I dont think I am the one speculating and spreading wrong info. Reopening the ticket.
>>>
>>> Ramy
>>>
>>> From: Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]>
>>> To: Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>>> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 12:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Xcsoar-user] How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?
>>>
>>> There is no speculation nor spreading wrong info in my posts. The wrong info was actually provided by yourself and Max when you closed the ticket as if this feature was already available. It was not but I am glad it will be available in 6.8.
>>> I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air location.
>>> Please explain how or  point me to the place where it is described in the manual.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the hard work you folks put into XCSoar
>>>
>>> Ramy
>>>
>>> (Sent from my iPhone)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Andreas Pfaller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A marker can be dropped at the cross-hair location in pan mode
>>>> just like you would do it at the current GPS position in the
>>>> normal map mode (well, you will have to use the menu as gestures
>>>> will not work in pan mode). This feature is certainly already
>>>> available in 6.7.x.
>>>>
>>>> The primary change in 6.8.x was converting a marker to a proper
>>>> waypoint.
>>>>
>>>> So please stop speculating and spreading wrong info. A new
>>>> 6.8.x alpha was just released.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Paul Surgeon
In reply to this post by Max Kellermann
I'm joining the discussion rather late but in Ramy's defence I agree with this statement, "I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air location."
I tried it with the 6.7.9 build for Android and no matter where you pan to on the map it always drops the marker where the aircraft is currently located and not at the cross hair location.
i.e.
- Pan mode
- Double tap for menu
- NAV 2
- Mark Drop

I do understand that the 6.7.x builds do not support converting a marker into a waypoint but that doesn't appear to be what Ramy is arguing about.
In 6.7.x markers can only be dropped where the aircraft is currently located - at least with the Android builds I tested.

@Martin: I believe they are referring to ticket 194 ( http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194 )
apf posted a screenshot where he can place markers where ever he likes in pan mode but this doesn't appear to work for several people using 6.7.x builds so Ramy re-opened the ticket which pissed max off.


On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Max Kellermann <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
> Max really thinks we are all stupid:

That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and other
XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
XCSoar bug tracker.

Byebye.

Max

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Paul Surgeon
Update:
I just tested 6.8 alpha 9 on Android and it is possible to drop a marker anywhere on the map.
This is not possible with the 6.7.9 build for Android.


On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Paul Surgeon <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm joining the discussion rather late but in Ramy's defence I agree with this statement, "I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT drop a mark at the cross air location."
I tried it with the 6.7.9 build for Android and no matter where you pan to on the map it always drops the marker where the aircraft is currently located and not at the cross hair location.
i.e.
- Pan mode
- Double tap for menu
- NAV 2
- Mark Drop

I do understand that the 6.7.x builds do not support converting a marker into a waypoint but that doesn't appear to be what Ramy is arguing about.
In 6.7.x markers can only be dropped where the aircraft is currently located - at least with the Android builds I tested.

@Martin: I believe they are referring to ticket 194 ( http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194 )
apf posted a screenshot where he can place markers where ever he likes in pan mode but this doesn't appear to work for several people using 6.7.x builds so Ramy re-opened the ticket which pissed max off.


On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Max Kellermann <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
> Max really thinks we are all stupid:

That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and other
XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
XCSoar bug tracker.

Byebye.

Max

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Ronald Niederhagen
I confirm Paul's (and others) findings.
However, I wouldn't want to use it in flight.

Ronald

Am 27.07.2015 um 07:15 schrieb Paul Surgeon:

> Update:
> I just tested 6.8 alpha 9 on Android and it is possible to drop a marker
> anywhere on the map.
> This is not possible with the 6.7.9 build for Android.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Paul Surgeon <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     I'm joining the discussion rather late but in Ramy's defence I agree
>     with this statement, "I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT
>     drop a mark at the cross air location."
>     I tried it with the 6.7.9 build for Android and no matter where you
>     pan to on the map it always drops the marker where the aircraft is
>     currently located and not at the cross hair location.
>     i.e.
>     - Pan mode
>     - Double tap for menu
>     - NAV 2
>     - Mark Drop
>
>     I do understand that the 6.7.x builds do not support converting a
>     marker into a waypoint but that doesn't appear to be what Ramy is
>     arguing about.
>     In 6.7.x markers can only be dropped where the aircraft is currently
>     located - at least with the Android builds I tested.
>
>     @Martin: I believe they are referring to ticket 194 (
>     http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194 )
>     apf posted a screenshot where he can place markers where ever he
>     likes in pan mode but this doesn't appear to work for several people
>     using 6.7.x builds so Ramy re-opened the ticket which pissed max off.
>
>
>     On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Max Kellermann <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>         On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>         > And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
>         > Max really thinks we are all stupid:
>
>         That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and
>         other
>         XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
>         hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
>         XCSoar bug tracker.
>
>         Byebye.
>
>         Max
>
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>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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>

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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Martin Kopplow
Given the fact that a marker we cannot navigate to makes only little sense in the context discussed, we need to have both the features: 'Drop marker at pan position' and 'use markers as waypoints'.

So, before the discussion goes on: Is there even the slightest chance of markers used as waypoints making it to any future 6.7.x release? Or will this not be introduced before 6.8.x?

If it was the latter, we could just stop discussing and wait for that release.

If it was the first, we probably have found a bug worth investigating and Ramy was most probably right in pointing out the feature of dropping markers in pan mode was not available (or at least not consistently usable) in 6.7.x. Some of us can reproduce that.

Since most of us are trying to communicate in a language that is not our native language, misunderstandings may happen, and I ask Max to reconsider banning Ramy.


Regarding usability in flight I fully agree with Ronald. While this is an important improvement for pre flight, I believe using it in flight might cause quite a long head down time. It takes an estimated 20 taps or more until you have a usable waypoint to insert in a task.
While I can clearly see reasons to use it pre flight, how likely would it be people use it in flight?

I do not need to speculate a lot, in this case. I have been using a glide computer which provided in flight waypoint creation, and was quite happy with it (quit it for say political reasons, but really really miss this feature). The workflow was very fast and I used it a lot to make 'what if' calculations. I would, for example, put a waypoint on a corner of some airspace to see if my final glide would take me safely around it or if I'd have to request clearance, or tentatively push a waypoint around on the map to optimize for OLC. Or, if FIS told me some ED-R on my route was active, I'd put a new waypoint just outside it to conveniently navigate around it.

That user interface approach did not include a menu for dropping markers, though. Instead each tap on the map would create kind of a tentative item on the map which could then be used as a feference for the next command, such as display airspaces at the location, list map items near the location, list flarm traffic near the location, or also as a waypoint appended or inserted in the task.
With it being very fast, (only tree taps to new waypoint in task) it soon became a convenient tool in flight.
In XCSoar we also tap on the screen, so not much difference here, but then we get the map elements list, which is a different approach. We get items, not commands.

That said, I'd answer Ronald that it could be made be a useful tool in flight, though it is not quite yet.

It would require a slightly different user interaction, such as a context menu popping open instead of the XCS map elements page. I am not sure the manpower required or the motivation to revamp the UI is available jus now. (And this would - of course- be a deeper UI-philosophical discussion.)

Viele Grüße
Martin Kopplow
---

Am 27.07.2015 um 09:18 schrieb Ronald Niederhagen <[hidden email]>:

> I confirm Paul's (and others) findings.
> However, I wouldn't want to use it in flight.
>
> Ronald
>
> Am 27.07.2015 um 07:15 schrieb Paul Surgeon:
>> Update:
>> I just tested 6.8 alpha 9 on Android and it is possible to drop a marker
>> anywhere on the map.
>> This is not possible with the 6.7.9 build for Android.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 6:56 AM, Paul Surgeon <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>   I'm joining the discussion rather late but in Ramy's defence I agree
>>   with this statement, "I tried what you describe in 6.7 and could NOT
>>   drop a mark at the cross air location."
>>   I tried it with the 6.7.9 build for Android and no matter where you
>>   pan to on the map it always drops the marker where the aircraft is
>>   currently located and not at the cross hair location.
>>   i.e.
>>   - Pan mode
>>   - Double tap for menu
>>   - NAV 2
>>   - Mark Drop
>>
>>   I do understand that the 6.7.x builds do not support converting a
>>   marker into a waypoint but that doesn't appear to be what Ramy is
>>   arguing about.
>>   In 6.7.x markers can only be dropped where the aircraft is currently
>>   located - at least with the Android builds I tested.
>>
>>   @Martin: I believe they are referring to ticket 194 (
>>   http://bugs.xcsoar.org/ticket/194 )
>>   apf posted a screenshot where he can place markers where ever he
>>   likes in pan mode but this doesn't appear to work for several people
>>   using 6.7.x builds so Ramy re-opened the ticket which pissed max off.
>>
>>
>>   On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Max Kellermann <[hidden email]
>>   <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>       On 2015/07/26 19:06, Ramy Yanetz <[hidden email]
>>       <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>> And  here is Max arrogant comment on my ticket:
>>> Max really thinks we are all stupid:
>>
>>       That's it, Ramy.  You have been annoying the hell out of me and
>>       other
>>       XCSoar developers for years.  That was your final insult.  You are
>>       hereby banned from XCSoar mailing lists, the XCSoar forum and the
>>       XCSoar bug tracker.
>>
>>       Byebye.
>>
>>       Max
>>
>>       ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>       [hidden email]
>>       <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>       https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xcsoar-user
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Neil Allison
Hi Martin,
 
> So, before the discussion goes on: Is there even the slightest chance of
> markers used as waypoints making it to any future 6.7.x release? Or will
> this not be introduced before 6.8.x?

I have built a latest version for testing in Windows and used the XCS-test
Android version whixh are 6.8.x.  I confirm both Drop Marker at pan
position and using this marker as a waypoint, i.e. "Goto" work well.

I have some more testing to do about how to name these to fit *my*
preferred waypoint naming scheme, likely of no use to anyone else.  I use
a customised event file .xci to create a gesture "m" to drop a marker and
I changed
the bottom right menu button in Pan mode to be "Drop Marker" too.  This
works for me. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Neil
--
Neil Allison, Christchurch, NZ


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Re: How to create a new waypoint on the map by panning or tapping?

Max Kellermann
In reply to this post by Martin Kopplow
On 2015/07/27 19:07, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So, before the discussion goes on: Is there even the slightest chance of markers used as waypoints making it to any future 6.7.x release? Or will this not be introduced before 6.8.x?

6.7.x is a "stable" branch with a feature freeze.  For uttermost
stability, no features are added/removed/changed.

For the same reasons, 6.7.x will not get a new IOIO driver, even
though new Android versions or new IOIO revisions require it - I don't
want to risk breaking anybody's existing setup.  It may break at the
transition to the next major release (6.8), and we'll figure it out
then - but during a stable series, nothing must break, even in the
presence of other disadvantages.

That concept has worked very well in the past 6 years (since I took
over XCSoar project management).  XCSoar has a good reputation for
being rock stable - something that could not be said about older
versions.

> Since most of us are trying to communicate in a language that is not
> our native language, misunderstandings may happen, and I ask Max to
> reconsider banning Ramy.

It is hard to imagine that Ramy calling me "an extreme type of
arrogant asshole" is something we can have misunderstandings about.

And now Ramy wants ME to apologise to HIM!  No, really!  See:

 "But you owe me a public apology."

That's what he wrote to me last sunday after getting banned.  You
can't make that stuff up!

People like Ramy take the fun from XCSoar development.  I don't want
that to happen.  This is my free time, and nobody pays me compensation
to tolerate Ramy.  So I decide I just don't deal with such people
anymore.

Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1357/

Max

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